IF WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN A HIGHER POWER WOULD WE HAVE A SENSE OF RIGHT OR WRONG?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Candy Diazes on June 27, 2009 at 2:31pm

The sense of right or wrong is not dictated by a god or religion; rather it emanates from a fear of retribution from society or the environment.

Even animals who don't have a concept of a supreme being know that if they do wrong they can be punished for it.

It is only human beings who try to excuse their failings and peccadillos to being created as faulty creatures by a god who made them in his own image.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on June 27, 2009 at 5:47pm

nangabilang bahay ang discussion ko, haha!

hhmmm CD, ano ba ang basis ng punishment? saan ba nanggaling yang concept na yan? paano natin nalaman na kung ginawa ko ito, mapaparusahan ako? was it not the founded on any religious belief? if religion makes you feel uncomfortable let's just call it superstitious beliefs, haha. basicallylaws originated from protection of property pero ang moral sense? where do you think it came from?

Animals know right from wrong because they learn through repetitive punishment of their actions. hindi ba tamang iassume na kung ako amo ng aso, ako ang supreme being for that particular dog?

I agree, i personally think morality is a made up word so that people who think they know better can enforce their personal convictions. It would take a hypocrite to recognize hypocrisy.
\

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Candy Diazes on June 28, 2009 at 12:51pm

If you would presume that the concept of right and wrong emanates from god or a supreme being; why do we have laws?

Bakit may law enforcers at law makers?

Bakit hindi na lang paubaya sa diyos ang lahat ng naliligaw ng landas?

Which brings me to another question that has been nagging me for quite a while:

Why does the CBCP and other religious groups have to rally against Con-Ass and GMA...bakit di na lang nila isumbong sa diyos nila and let god take care of it?

JELLE said:

nangabilang bahay ang discussion ko, haha!

hhmmm CD, ano ba ang basis ng punishment? saan ba nanggaling yang concept na yan? paano natin nalaman na kung ginawa ko ito, mapaparusahan ako? was it not the founded on any religious belief? if religion makes you feel uncomfortable let's just call it superstitious beliefs, haha. basicallylaws originated from protection of property pero ang moral sense? where do you think it came from?

Animals know right from wrong because they learn through repetitive punishment of their actions. hindi ba tamang iassume na kung ako amo ng aso, ako ang supreme being for that particular dog?

I agree, i personally think morality is a made up word so that people who think they know better can enforce their personal convictions. It would take a hypocrite to recognize hypocrisy.
\

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on June 28, 2009 at 12:57pm

haha! we were talking about that just yesterday! haha..hirap iexplain nga niyan, dapat live conversation..haha..i'm cathoic, but im not a devout, not prouyd of it not asahmed of it either, pero ganito lang ang question lang naman eh, kung walang te commandments may basis ba tayo? sabihin na naing hindi galing sa Diyos yan, sa totoo lang parang hindi kapanipaniwala yung may dalawang rocks na nastruck ng lighting haha! anong basis natin ngayon ng laws?

possession, pursuit of happiness yan ang nagbigay daan sa mga batas nung unang panahon,,,pero ang regulation nagbunga yan dahil sa mga pangaral, san nanggaling ang mga pangaral?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by wenZ on June 28, 2009 at 8:52pm

ms jelle :) according to the holy scripture.... kung walang kautusan walang kasalanan.

regarding about 10 commandments .... ibinigay po yung law na yan para sa mga Israelita,

sapagkat sila po yung kinikilala ng dios na bayan nya during that time, they are chosen people.

Noong narito pa po ang ating Panginoong Jesus Cristo, may ibinigay po syang utos na galing sa ating Ama.

ang sabi " Ibigin mo ang Dios higit sa lahat, at ibigin mo ang iyong kapwa gaya ng iyong sarili. " sensya na po

kalimutan ko talata .... :)


Sagutin ko na ring yung kay ms Tang :)

Bakit may law enforcers at law makers?

Bakit hindi na lang paubaya sa diyos ang lahat ng naliligaw ng landas?


sagot:

1) we are not Angels na nilalang, Angels are perfect.
Thats why we need Goverment upang isaayos tayo.

2) sa mga naliligaw ng landas, ang Dios po may ginagamit na kasangkapan,
kaya nga sa bawat panahon if you will notice in bible history our dear father in heaven
nagpapadala po ng messenger, sa bawat panahon nagsusugo po ang Dios para sa mga tao
na kanyang ililigtas. Halimbawa : Upang iligtas ng Dios ang mga israelita sa kamay ni faraon
tinawag nya si Moises.....upang iligtas ang israel sa pagsamba kay baal pinadala nya si Elias na propeta.
mga sugo> si gideon, si samson, si daniel, si david at higit sa lahat ang Cristo.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on June 29, 2009 at 10:02am

oh wow, wenz ikaw ba talaga yan? haha

well, still galing sa Diyos ang basis of moral sense diba...you are supporting my initial premise.

i will change the title of my discussion para open for all...

i think what CD means is kahit na walang higher power we would still come up with laws to regulate our daily living, kasi we are thinking. if we are going to base everything today in our time knowing between right and wrong is not rocket scence, its just common sense, however this sense of right and wrong was only passed from one generation to another. so did the people or our ancestors come up with laws to regulate their tribes?

these tribe's leaders, even kings, where do they get their sense of credibility? why do people believe them and follow their bidding? hindi ba because of "divine right?"

let's just make it simple, in an organization, do you take orders from your colleagues? as for me, of course not! initial reaction would be, why should i listen to you? We take orders from our superiors,,,same thing, human beings before have to believe there is something greater than them to merit the leaders enough credibility to be listened to...even todaym if i was having a discourse with a friend and im about to bite his head off, suddenly another friend mediates and shouts at us saying, "stop fighting!" my initial reaction would be, BACK OFF! why? because we're all of the same level, we're all friends, so what gives you the right to meddle? if someone older than us butss in well, i might actually shut up. just might...haha! modern times, we have moral sense these days, how much more during the old times? do you think people could be controlled without believing that their is a higher bidding?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Candy Diazes on June 29, 2009 at 1:15pm

JELLE said:

oh wow, wenz ikaw ba talaga yan? haha
well, still galing sa Diyos ang basis of moral sense diba...you are supporting my initial premise.
i will change the title of my discussion para open for all...

i think what CD means is kahit na walang higher power we would still come up with laws to regulate our daily living, kasi we are thinking. if we are going to base everything today in our time knowing between right and wrong is not rocket scence, its just common sense, however this sense of right and wrong was only passed from one generation to another. so did the people or our ancestors come up with laws to regulate their tribes?

these tribe's leaders, even kings, where do they get their sense of credibility? why do people believe them and follow their bidding? hindi ba because of "divine right?"

let's just make it simple, in an organization, do you take orders from your colleagues? as for me, of course not! initial reaction would be, why should i listen to you? We take orders from our superiors,,,same thing, human beings before have to believe there is something greater than them to merit the leaders enough credibility to be listened to...even todaym if i was having a discourse with a friend and im about to bite his head off, suddenly another friend mediates and shouts at us saying, "stop fighting!" my initial reaction would be, BACK OFF! why? because we're all of the same level, we're all friends, so what gives you the right to meddle? if someone older than us butss in well, i might actually shut up. just might...haha! modern times, we have moral sense these days, how much more during the old times? do you think people could be controlled without believing that their is a higher bidding?

If you do not follow the rules of an organization, you will be banished or expelled without the priveleges of a member in good standing.

Kakain ka ng walang asin at ang pwede mo lang makasalamuha ay mga gaya mong "untouchables" na pinandidirihan ng iba.

Kung miyembro ka ng homeowners' association at isa kang pasaway; hindi kukunin ang basura mo at di papapasukin ng sikyu ang kotse mo sa gate.

Your personal freedom only extends to where it will not infringe on the personal freedom of another; it has nothing to do with "divine right"

If you will study history closely, most heinous crimes and massacres are done in the name of god. You don't see atheists throwing bombs in a crowded restaurant or mall; the Jonestown Massacre was done in the name of god.

Almost all major wars were the cause of religious conflicts...as far as right and wrong is concerned, I would think that I would be better off without a belief in a higher power...my homeowners' association has more credibility.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on June 29, 2009 at 5:57pm

ahaha! you made my day..homeowner's association talaga...

you deviated from the topic naman eh! haha!

i'm really not talking about exercise of personal freedom, or effects of non compliance to any organization's standards. i am merely attempting to understand where superego finds reasons to make us weigh right and wrong.
personally,

sense of right and wrong...its relative

"what is good for you may be bad for another"

those people who killed in the name of God, that is their own belief, that is their sense of right and wrong...they think they are doing the greater good, that is their conviction.

i believe, killing is wrong, because i was told it was wrong, however, put me in an environment which teaches killing as a way to live, then it becomes right according to me.

things become right if they are acceptable in the society i live in, where do they base this standards? surely, common sense will tell us, they base it in such a way that they can regulate a certain community, but come to think of it, how did men manage to control communities?

alam mo if i lived in the age wherein totally no laws, i would not just listen to anyone, kasi pareho pareho lang kaming nassstruggle to survive, parepareho kaming tao...but if you made me believe there is something out there bigger than me who is all powerful and you work for him, hhhmm...i just might listen..haha!

your premise is already at a certain level where people already has an idea between what is right and wrong...

okay let's remove the higher power, i'll just ask, how did you know what is right and what is wrong?

haha...you probably already know, i am not an enthusiast when it comes to religion, which is why i did not opt to put this discussion under spirituality coz i think this discussion has nothing to do with spirituality, its just a discussion trying to understand how superego is formed. Good for your health eh?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by wenZ on June 29, 2009 at 10:44pm

The two Standards------> The standard of God and the Standard of Satan

im sureyou will agree that we must rely in the Will of our Father in heaven? ;)


sagutin ko lang ito : "i'll just ask, how did you know what is right and what is wrong?"

We know what is right and what is wrong, kasi po may kautusang natatago sa ating mga Puso!

kakaibang sagot ba? hehehehe pero totoo may batayan talaga yan hehehehe Secret.... :)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on June 30, 2009 at 11:43am

wenZ said:

im sureyou will agree that we must rely in the Will of our Father in heaven? ;)

do not put words into my mouth, or in this case, my fingers...

personally speaking, i'd rather like to think that man has the capacity to think for himself with only one ground, "do what i desire without hurting others, at least physically" however, moral grounds all goes back to antiquity, superstitious beliefs.


are you a father wenz? if i were a parent, if i had kids, i will do everything in my power to give them convenience...i will provide for them...if i were a God as omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent as the tenets of our church says Him to be..why so passive?

the only will of your father in heaven is that we go and multiply...

don't you sometimes think, we are on our own? it wouldn't hurt to believe in something, a rational mind could not easily dismiss the existence of a higher intelligence because of how accurate the world and body of man was made.

do not draw any conclusions that i am taking your side just because i believe the origin of our means of social control is belief in the higher power..

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by wenZ on July 1, 2009 at 2:03pm

jelle said: are you a father wenz?


Nyah? hehehehe di po ako naka-abito.

We have limitation po,nasusulat po :) huwag tayong manangan sa sarili nating karunungan.

Pwede bang mag reklamo ang palayok sa manggagawa ng palayok?

jelle said: the only will of your father in heaven is that we go and multiply

Ang paggawa po ng mabuti ay isa sa kalooban ng nasa itaas at marami pa pong iba. :)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on July 1, 2009 at 2:09pm

he also willed that we suffer from childbirth...so excuse me if im a little bitter neh? LOL

▶ Reply to This

▶ Reply to This

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page