Is there really such a thing as "free-will"?
If God knows everything including the future; can there be such a thing as "free-will"?
Did the victims of Ondoy and Pepeng have a say on what happened to them?
Did the victims of Ondoy and Pepeng have a say on what happened to them?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by odraleon on -
No.. i do not believe in free-will
1. In making descisions, you are obliged to choose your options... you are bound to pick what is best for you.. thus no free will. You cannot just say that I do drugs out of free-will. One still have a choice.. to stick the needle or not.
2. Random actions.. thats not free will.. that is instinct.. the body reacts to what it needs. Like sex.. you cannot think rational when you are bound to the call of the flesh.. not free-will.
3. Everything happens for a reason..your future will depend upon how you cope/react to such circumstances
Lastly.. natural disasters.. well.. one cannot choose where the disasters will happen.. as an old saying goes "if it's your time to go.. you gotta go". But one can avoid it by preventive measures/safety guidelines and all that crap.
Maybe God has his own agenda.. in his own free time.. his own free-will.. but maybe i'm wrong.. we are still made by His own image and likeness.
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Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on -
hmmm.. this is something my mother and I always argue about...for her, if we believe in the great design, we should not believe in freewill for God knows what and who we become from the day of our conception until the day we die.
Free will is not the issue, the subject should be fate. Is there such a thing as fate?
God knows we would sometimes lose our way, He knows that we sometimes suffer and sometimes experience pain, He chose not to intervene and we are so quick to question His ways. When we experience prosperity, wealth, happiness, have we ever asked, why hasn't God intervened? Is it God's duty to make us happy?
God knows who we will be, He knows that overtime His heart will be broken by the bad choices we make and yet He let us be...He allowed us to live. There is free will, because we are free to take which side we want to take, He knows the choices we will make but He did not control and manipulate those outcomes.
As to Ondoy and Pepeng, it may be fate, God knew it will come, God knew people would help. It is not a wise choice to blame God for our misfortunes, clearly , doing so is only a waste of time. There is nothing He would do anyway, haha! I believe, I am on my own, I thank God everyday for the life He has given me, but I do not depend on Him to make my life better. we may pray for courage, but to pray for a house and lot is another waste of your time. haha!
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Permalink Reply by TET on -
I believe there is a "free will". Whether it is an answer to a yes or no question or choosing which path to go. As long as i get to choose to some called predetermined questions, is still a freedom of choice.
I agree with Jelle's comment about fate.
With Odraleon's comment...well, people have different opinion and choices...You dont have to be obliged to choose your options...The fact that you can choose which suits you best is a free will. It isn't a case of multiple choice...pick a, b, or c. By the way, maybe it's just you or some men...but i am very sure that i can still think rational when it comes to "call of flesh" (your own word).
So, the question should be - either fate or destiny....
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Permalink Reply by Alvin Beltran on -
Yes, we have a free-will and you cannot deny that. By its word meaning --- will means the power of making decision or controlling your own actions. If we don't have this free-will, we will be just like robots following what is being ordered to us. In doing things to make our life happy and successful, we pray Thy will be done, meaning we are giving to God or wants His "God's will" upang maging karapat-dapat tayo sa kanya.
Yes, meron tayong takdang oras ng pagkamatay pero maaaring madali at magtagal ang ating buhay base sa ating ginagawa. Lahat yan ay nasusulat sa Biblia. If you wish to lengthen your life, igalang mo ang iyong mga magulang--- Nasa Kawikaan yan. At kung bakit nadadali naman ang buhay --- dahil na ring sa kapabayaan at pag-aabuso sa sarili.
Nasa Diyos ang awa, nasa tao ang gawa. God helps those who helps themselves. Binibigay Niya ang mga bagay sa tamang panahon at alam Niya kung kailangan Niyang iibigay. Kung hindi man Niya ibigay, may dahilang maganda kung bakit dahil He knows what is the best for us.
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Permalink Reply by Candy Diazes on -
Alvin Beltran said:Yes, we have a free-will and you cannot deny that. By its word meaning --- will means the power of making decision or controlling your own actions. If we don't have this free-will, we will be just like robots following what is being ordered to us. In doing things to make our life happy and successful, we pray Thy will be done, meaning we are giving to God or wants His "God's will" upang maging karapat-dapat tayo sa kanya.
Yes, meron tayong takdang oras ng pagkamatay pero maaaring madali at magtagal ang ating buhay base sa ating ginagawa. Lahat yan ay nasusulat sa Biblia. If you wish to lengthen your life, igalang mo ang iyong mga magulang--- Nasa Kawikaan yan. At kung bakit nadadali naman ang buhay --- dahil na ring sa kapabayaan at pag-aabuso sa sarili.
Nasa Diyos ang awa, nasa tao ang gawa. God helps those who helps themselves. Binibigay Niya ang mga bagay sa tamang panahon at alam Niya kung kailangan Niyang iibigay. Kung hindi man Niya ibigay, may dahilang maganda kung bakit dahil He knows what is the best for us.
Ibig mo bang sabihin na lahat ng 200,000 na namatay sa Haiiti ay inabuso ang kanilang sarili?
Paano yung mga UN workers na namatay; may nagawa ba sila to deserve that?
Alam ng Diyos na mangyayari yan; di ibig sabihin wala tayong free will to change that.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?...Epicurus
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Permalink Reply by Candy Diazes on
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Where is the Free Will in this picture?
This photograph showing a starving Sudanese child being stalked by a vulture won Kevin Carter the 1994 Pulitzer Prize for feature photography. He commited suicide shortly after.
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Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on
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CD Nahihighblood ka na naman....
too tired to think lately...i miss the forums.
it seems that the vulture is the only one with free will in the picture.
free will is everywhere, we can change the course of our lives. For those who are powerful enough, they can change the course of other people's lives as well. How most people make use of it in their daily lives is lamentable. We cannot blame God for hunger and strife. Earth was filled with abundance. We are parasites, technically and figuratively.
I know where you are getting at...There is no free will, when there are no options or when decisions are made for us such as God knowing our fate. Free will is for those who live. when you have lost options, you are dead. and yes, i think, that the child in that photo is dead, the question is, are you willing to make use of your free will to help the child and start giving him options?
the free will in that picture CD is not in the picture. the free will lies on the person who looks upon it. will you help? will you ignore it?will you abhor it or will you act on it?
if i may add, the photographer chose to take a snapshot. ;p
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Permalink Reply by Candy Diazes on
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It is not really about blaming God, JD; it is insisting that we have a free will and we have the choice to exercise it or not. It is blaming ourselves and others for our misery and thanking God for our blessings.
The fallacy of this argument is all around us:
People After Ondoy: Pinaparusahan tayo dahil sa lumalayo tayo sa Diyos.
Economy Passenger (after being served a meal): Don't we have a choice ?
Stewardess: Of course you do. It's either you eat it or don't.
School Principal: All students must give a voluntary donation
Sa mga hospital:
Pag gumaling ang pasyente: Salamat sa Diyos!!!
Pag namatay ang pasyente: Kasalanan ng Doctor.
People after every disaster: Isa lamang itong pagsusubok na dapat natin malampasan.
AMPFUFU naman!!! Ilang pagsubok pa ang dapat nating lampasan; diba sobra-sobra na ito? Samantalang ang mga ibang bansa na hindi kasing madasalin kesa sa atin ay di gaano ang pagsusubok.
Meron nga tayo free will...the free will to accept whatever comes to us which is not free will at all.
Di kaya pinarurusahan tayo ng tunay na diyos dahil we have been worshipping the wrong one all the time?
JESELLE DAYRIT said:CD Nahihighblood ka na naman....
too tired to think lately...i miss the forums.
it seems that the vulture is the only one with free will in the picture.
free will is everywhere, we can change the course of our lives. For those who are powerful enough, they can change the course of other people's lives as well. How most people make use of it in their daily lives is lamentable. We cannot blame God for hunger and strife. Earth was filled with abundance. We are parasites, technically and figuratively.
I know where you are getting at...There is no free will, when there are no options or when decisions are made for us such as God knowing our fate. Free will is for those who live. when you have lost options, you are dead. and yes, i think, that the child in that photo is dead, the question is, are you willing to make use of your free will to help the child and start giving him options?
the free will in that picture CD is not in the picture. the free will lies on the person who looks upon it. will you help? will you ignore it?will you abhor it or will you act on it?
if i may add, the photographer chose to take a snapshot. ;p
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Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on
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ROFL, you have my sympathies CD. ;p
i am hereby guilty beyond reasonable doubt. i thank God for good fortunes and blame people for misfortunes. LOL. When Ondoy struck, i blamed it on people who throws trash anywhere, exaggerated industrialization, etc, etc. It's just the way it is. I grew up free to choose whatever religion i wish to join, believe me, i tried all sorts; I always go back to being Catholic, why? it's convenient. ;p
It's not that i fail to see the flaws of my religion, (i always use "I" because i cannot speak for others) it's just that, i really don't have enough time to come up with my own> >>LOL
Free will is not one i have doubted the presence of. It's great design, i often question.
Anyway, the God I know is perfect, perfection which transcends goodness. I could not imagine misfortunes coming from God. That's why i can't blame HER..LOL...people on the other hand. humans...humans...they exploit and destroy anything they touch. LOL
Wait! I do not really know who I am right now. My goodness! who is typing?!
We don't have to worship, we just have to thank. i don't really know who to thank most of the time for all the good i see or the joy. but when I feel blessed with so many good people around me, I just breathe in and say thank you, and then of course I'll breathe out too! LOL
I do not consider myself religious, i do not make the sign of the cross when i pass on a church, i do not do novenas, i do not know how to pray the rosary (not that i'm proud of it) often when i lead prayers on occasions and events i would forget a line or two. and i don't know why they keep on making me lead those prayers!i hate chain letters! but i could say that i have faith. it keeps me together, it keeps me sane.
So enlighten me CD, what do you propose should be?
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Permalink Reply by Candy Diazes on
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Gising ka pa ba JD?
I am not saying that you should not have faith; what I would like to propose is to have faith in a different concept of God; not the one that has been imposed upon us by people who claim to be his supporters.
I would rather believe in a God who is so powerful and secure in himself that he does not need to be worshipped, thanked or for his believers to sacrifice for him. If you have everything already, what use is a few hundred million contributions to you?
Will he be diminished if people don't worship, obey or sacrifice to him?
As a God his only wish should be for us to have real free will but to respect and love each other and go our merry way.
I have no use for a vengeful, insecure and power tripping god.
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! ..But He loves you...George Carlin
JESELLE DAYRIT said:ROFL, you have my sympathies CD. ;p
i am hereby guilty beyond reasonable doubt. i thank God for good fortunes and blame people for misfortunes. LOL. When Ondoy struck, i blamed it on people who throws trash anywhere, exaggerated industrialization, etc, etc. It's just the way it is. I grew up free to choose whatever religion i wish to join, believe me, i tried all sorts; I always go back to being Catholic, why? it's convenient. ;p
It's not that i fail to see the flaws of my religion, (i always use "I" because i cannot speak for others) it's just that, i really don't have enough time to come up with my own> >>LOL
Free will is not one i have doubted the presence of. It's great design, i often question.
Anyway, the God I know is perfect, perfection which transcends goodness. I could not imagine misfortunes coming from God. That's why i can't blame HER..LOL...people on the other hand. humans...humans...they exploit and destroy anything they touch. LOL
Wait! I do not really know who I am right now. My goodness! who is typing?!
We don't have to worship, we just have to thank. i don't really know who to thank most of the time for all the good i see or the joy. but when I feel blessed with so many good people around me, I just breathe in and say thank you, and then of course I'll breathe out too! LOL
I do not consider myself religious, i do not make the sign of the cross when i pass on a church, i do not do novenas, i do not know how to pray the rosary (not that i'm proud of it) often when i lead prayers on occasions and events i would forget a line or two. and i don't know why they keep on making me lead those prayers!i hate chain letters! but i could say that i have faith. it keeps me together, it keeps me sane.
So enlighten me CD, what do you propose should be?
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Permalink Reply by Alvin Beltran on
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Candy,
I didn’t mean that ang mga namatay sa Haiti ay inaabuso nila ang sarili. There are things that are will of men, will of evil and will of God.
May pagkakataong nililiglig ng Diyos ang lupa sa kaniyang pagkagalit kung kaya’t ang mga haligi nito ay nangayayanig.
If it happened, God knows what is the best for them and He has the right to claim our lives. May mga kinukuha na dahil maaaring magdanas pa sila ng matinding paghihirap or kinukuha na sila dahil ayaw ng Panginoon na sila’y mapasama pa or kinakailangan upang ipaalaala sa mga buhay ang mga maaaring mangyari pa upang maging handa tayo sa susunod na mga araw. We do not know the reasons but be sure God knows all of it as He gives the best for us.
The UN workers died with a noble cause. God prepare their room in His kingdom.
We should not blame if it happened to them. As I said, God has the best for them and only those who believe knew.
Do you know the story of Job in the bible? He believes that God will not leave Him. Inspite of the long-suffering given by evil Satan to Job in order to leave God (take note that it was Satan), Job still believe in His God and has rewarded a thousand fold.
Jesselle,
The photographer who take the photo won a Pulitzer prize. We do not know what is his will when he take the photo- Is it just to take the photo and submit to won a prize or is there any other will he wants to do. We do not know what happened to the child? Does the photographer left the child alone helpless after taking picture or does he help to carry the child to give medication and feed him?
After winning the prize in photography, why did the photographer committed suicide? There’s a reason for this and you may have a hint why?
The good thing is the photographer has taken the photo and reach worldwide to know the famine situation in the affected country. Through this, the world knows and some possibly give help and support for the victims. This gives the chance for other to do good deeds and store “treasure in heaven”.
Candy,
We should not blame ourselves or others for our misery. Misery is the work of evil. Thanksgiving is the work of the people of God.
Jesselle,
I’m sure you have tried SOME sort of religion only, not the real one. If you have the real one, you will not go back to being a Catholic even it’s convenient. It so happen that you still haven’t found it or you still don’t know much of the doctrines of Christ.
Keep of giving thanks. I feel you have a goodness in your heart.
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Permalink Reply by JESELLE DAYRIT on
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Candy obvious ba? pero natulog naman ako kahit papaano...nakakapagisip pa naman kahit papaano. LOL
Ganun ba? Akala ko hinihikayat mo akong maging pastafarian..LOL
i agree. it's common sense, when you are confident, you don't really need a morale booster.
there is a saying which goes something like..the more laws the more corrupt the country is. i forgot who said it, but it makes sense. i asked my students whether laws impedes our free will. the room fell silent for an hour and a half..LOL
hello Alvin,
lighten up. i didn't say taking the snapshot was a bad thing to do, you came up with that one all by yourself. congrats!
religion is relative, there is no such thing as a real religion. when we have many options we'll never know which one will work out the best, for we could only choose one. assuming, i would like to be a a nurse, a doctor, a teacher, a law enforcer. due to circumstances i became a housewife , i would not know if being a nurse, a doctor , a teacher or law enforcer would make me happier, i could choose only one path. and in religion, i choose being Roman Catholic, it has flaws i know, but i'm all up for it. it could not get any real than knowing there is something wrong but still embrace it.
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